Taking Ming back to school
Uncategorized August 11th, 2008Apparently armor penetration is going to be changed to a rating which will give people % armor penetration. I’ve just read last post on World of Ming, and boy does he have any idea how the armor works?
This is a great, great balance change. Corrently armor penetration is incredible vs clothes, worthless vs heavy armor. With the same amount of armor penetration stats, warriors get a much bigger damage boost on a rogue, than the rogue hitting him back. By changing armor penetration into percentage will allow both classes to benefit from the stat equally.
ORLY? Took me one minute to calculate. Let’s take 50% reduction on 3000 armor:
Armor reduction without reduction: 22.13%
Armor reduction with reduction: 12.44%
DPS increased by 12.44%
And same 50% reduction on 10000 armor:
Armor reduction without reduction: 48.64%
Armor reduction with reduction: 32.14%
DPS increased by 32.14%
So, with this new “balanced” %-based formula, armor penetration will change it’s purpose from raping clothies to raping plates, equally benefiting my ass.
Terhix
August 11th, 2008 at 11:36 am
As someone who mainly plays a mage, the news that rogues will be doing that much less damage to me is great.
As a warrior, I’m just drooling at the idea of being able to keep hamstring and ms up on a paladin while retaining enough rage to pummel >_>
August 11th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
You make a half baked observation. Sure the amount of your physical damage mitigation may be lowered by a higher amount, but the amount of damage done will still be much less than done to the clothie. The damage increase done to the clothie and to the plate wearer will be increased by the same % after the change, whereas in current wow it does not.
As pointed out this is more fair for all classes involved. 1100 armor pen currently wrecks a clothie, but does very little to a plate wearer. How is that fair? Keep in mind you still have dodge, parry and block(with shield equiped ofc), not to mention a higher hitpoint pool than most other classes to offset the loss of mitigation.
August 11th, 2008 at 10:07 pm
I’m speechless. I’ve just posted how % based armor penetration gives higher % increased damage on plate than it does on cloth (by a huge margin), and there must be someone in the internet who doesn’t understand that 32.14% is higher than 12.44%. How stupid do you exactly are?
Oh, and I’ve dodge and parry? That’s 10% parry with 5/5 deflection and 4.45% dodge, GO ME! I know priests who have more dodge than that, when was the last time you have actually seen warrior gear that has Agility on it? We are not rogues. A higher hit points pool? Yeah, I’ll give you that, hey, did you notice that berserker stance stuff we are using pretty much all the time, yeah, it makes us take 10% more damage, pretty much negating that hp, cool, huh?
Ignorance is bliss.
August 12th, 2008 at 1:19 am
Rapes plate more than cloth? YUZ. I love this change, making armor pen better against higher armored targets not only makes sense, but allows me to actually hit hard against paladins and DKs. Loooove.
And I believe what Sean was trying to say is that though armor pen actually is more beneficial of a STAT against classes with higher armor, the -damage- you deal in the end will be the same, as you’ve gotten rid of alot more mitigation when taking away plate, you get rid of less mitigation when fighting cloth, but they have lower base armor anyways, so the damage you deal is more consistent.
If that is completely uninformed and I have no idea how the armor system works, then feel free to correct me, that’s just what I see happening.
August 12th, 2008 at 9:27 am
The problem is that it will be either completely useless against cloth, or overpowered against plate. In full PvP set you have 462 armor penetration, make that 1302 with executioner procced. Against 3000 armor cloth this will grant you 10.62% damage boost, while against 10000 plate it’s going down to 6.76%.
If they would like to keep it as usefull against cloth as it is now, it would have to be 43.4% reduced armor, in which case you get 4340 armor scrapped of plate, which is 26.76% more damage. A bit much? Ok, so let’s see how much can we scrap from plate to get 10.62% we had against cloth. On 10000 armor that would have to be 1974 armor penetration, which is 19.74%, so now let’s go back to the cloth, shall we? We are down to 592 armor on 3000 cloth, which gives, HOLY FUCK! 2.97%! ALMOST 3%!
This is going to be way harder to balance than current armor penetration.
August 12th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
I wholeheartedly agree with Terhix’s math. However, I can see the need for Bliz to change how Armor Pen is applied. I think its the same story with Def and the other things they moved to a ‘rating’. Mudflation would mess up itemization.
So they move Armor Pen to a rating system that needs to scale down with level so S4 gear doesn’t woop ass forever. That means they gotta either have a % based scale or an ‘absolute’ (for lack of a better word) scale. If they go with %, they can try to balance both attacker and defender. But then you get the plate problem. With absolute, they can balance only the attacker, but as you go up in level armor increases too. Therefore the effectiveness of armor pen goes down automatically, and you have to have mudflation to keep up or set an effective cap on armor pen.
I think they should not move armor pen to a rating, and just assign a worth to each point for itemization. Ok, I’m done. Brain Hurt.
August 12th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
Well old system is anti-cloth, new system is anti-plate - both are wrong.
Maybe % based system with hard caps would work, you know something like “reduces armor by X% but not less than Y and not more than Z”. Then you balance Y to not being OP to cloth and Z to not being OP to plate - mission complete.
August 12th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
Sounds like a good idea Fug, but I doubt that information would go in the tooltip and then people would get confused.
Oh well, people can’t understand many mechanics as it is (me included lol) so what the hell, if it works, go for it.
August 13th, 2008 at 9:46 am
It does not need to. Look at steady shot and aimed shot for example, tooltip does not say that they will reset auto-shot even that it is super important (for now).
August 13th, 2008 at 9:55 am
The tooltip could be simply “Your attacks ignore X% of your enemy armor up to Y”, where Y is a capped value for whatever armor penetration rating you might have.
Edit: for example, with the numbers I used in my first post full PvP gear + executioner would grant you something around that: “Your attacks ignore 40% of your enemy armor up to 2000″, this way you scrap 1200 armor from 3000 armor clothie giving 9.71% dps boost, while being capped at 2000 on 10000 armor would grant 10.78% damage boost on plate. It will still peak somewhere on the mail armor values, but the differences wouldn’t be as extreme.
August 16th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
Its funny that with all the “overpowered” armor penetration i have right i still cant beat the poor clothies priests, mages, and locks in a duel
August 27th, 2008 at 9:03 am
Well, keep posting Terhix, since this site was great and maybe you’ll be back in WOTLK:).
Btw, orc warrior ftw, finally Axes get the love they deserve!
August 27th, 2008 at 9:34 am
I keep posting on terhix.com, Black Orc > orc warrior, period.
WAAAGH!