Mongoose vs Executioner vs Savagery
Enchants November 20th, 2007Long version:
Season 3 starts next week, so it’s high time to take a look at weapon enchants to make sure what to pick. Personally, I think I wont have this problem, since I’ll have to stick with weapon chain. For those of you who will have Weapon Mastery tho, a quick analise.
First, let’s compare Executioner to Mongoose. They are both proc enchants, and while I couldn’t find any real PPM for them to estimate their average uptime, I’ll just assume they proc on same rate. Mongoose gives 120 agility and 2% haste to attacks. 120 agility translate into 3.63% crit, 4% dodge and 240 armor. Executioner makes your attacks ignore 840 enemy armor, the trick here is that the exact dps increase form Executioner depends on the armor your enemy has, and as such it’s best when used on low armor targets. I’ve updated my Sunder Armor calculator recently to include Executioner. Without looking at Sunder Armor, Executioner on 5k armor target is 5.71% damage increase, which really increase burst damage, and it really works great with Sunder Armor. Also, S3 armor is full of armor reduction (not as much as some PvE gear tho). When taking on 10k armored target, that number goes down, but is till worth it, with 4.26% damage increase. If you have around 130% crit, 3.63% crit from mongoose is about 2.7% dps increase, when you take resilience into account it goes down to ~2.2 - 2.1 dps increase, there is no competition, Executioner is way better offensive enchant for warriors then Mongoose. My numbers can be not so accurate, I’m not taking deep wounds, flurry or whatever into account, but even if I would, there is no way that 2.2% would raise enough to compete with 5% of Executioner. The good side about mongoose is that it helps with your survivability, but then, dodge and 240 armor is not going to help you when you get nuked on the arena. Let’s just give mongoose to rogues.
Savagery is pretty simple, 70 attack power always. 70 attack power is 5 dps. 5 dps when you already have 250 dps (I guess that number will go much higher in S3, if it’s not already higher for heavily ap geared S2 warriors) is roughly 2% dps increase (again, not counting many factors, but it should be pretty close). As such, it already beat mongoose for offensive power as it’s active all the time. I don’t know how high can the uptime on Executioner be, but assuming 50% uptime, Executioner beats Savagery on average dps over time. Executioner also scales well better with gear, it gets better the more attack power you have and the more armor reduction from other sources you have, it’s a beast right here. The huge advantage of Savagery is it’s price, Executioner is rather expensive stuff, nothing out of reach for any warrior tho. It finally feels like we have an enchant that truly benefits our class.
Short version:
Executioner pwns.
Terhix
November 20th, 2007 at 4:06 pm
You really need some information on executioner proc rate and duration to compare it to savagery. 50% uptime seems extremely high for a proc enchant. Didn’t crusader roll around 33% at best - and that was an enchant that procced like crazy.
It looks like while execution is better than savagery assuming a 50% proc rate, the closer it gets to 25/30% the more equal it will be to savagery.
The other constant problem with procs is that they go off at useless times. You get your proc, and then get sheeped. You execute the last enemy and get your proc. Savagery works on every single hit you do. Even if executioner is up 33% of the time, it doesn’t mean its affecting 33% of your attacks or 33% of your damage.
Without knowing PPM and proc duration you can’t really compare. And I think 50% is a wildly optimistic guess. Rejig the numbers for 25% or 33% and you might be closer to the reality.
November 20th, 2007 at 4:09 pm
If it’s up 33% of the time, it will affect 33% of your attacks, eventually. You can get sheeped while having it, but you can also have it for entire fight if you get lucky.
November 20th, 2007 at 5:04 pm
Well you need a real estimate of the uptime of it regardless. I do still say though that 33% uptime affecting 33% attacks is the perfect scenario, like fighting a boss in pve.
In pvp the time you spend with the buff up but not dealing damage will always make it less efficient than that. If you only get 5 procs in a minute, and 2 of them come off executes, then you’re basically only getting 3 procs per minute because those 2 didnt do anything for your damage.
Savagery = 100% of your attacks, 100% of your damage. There’s no guarantee executioner will affect 33% of your attacks even if it has a 1/3 chance to proc just due to the way pvp combat goes. If all it ever procced on was death dealing executes for you, it wouldn’t do a single point of dmg for you as all of its uptime would be during your downtime.
November 27th, 2007 at 2:15 pm
Savagery isnt going to boost your execute damage. its only going to boost the white hits that give u rage to execute and executioner will have the same effect if procced. Also if you have 1800 ap unbuffed like i do, an extra 70 isnt going to be all that whereas a chance to use your allready massive AP on a lower armoured target is going to be a nice boost. Personally i stick with savagery for now when i get s3 gear it would be ludicrous not to get executioner.
December 5th, 2007 at 7:41 am
I have one question regarding your dismissal of Mongoose. You did not mention the effect of the 2% haste and I am wondering what effect this would have on your extrapolated numbers?
I have not played for 15 months and am getting back in the game… sorry if this is a completely newb question.
January 2nd, 2008 at 6:49 pm
a quick question, how far does executioner go in PVE with 2hands? in not so high end raids. such as kara, gruul, SSC, TK.
May 2nd, 2008 at 2:05 pm
My guild master has made a web-app which among other things, track aura (or “buff”) uptimes. On Brutallus my Executioner seem to have a quite steady 50% uptime (49,6% last kill). This is as an Arms Slam Warrior.
So in a PvE environment with a 2hander, I’d say 50% uptime is a safe bet, I’m not much of a PvPer so I dont know if there would be much difference between a stationary fight such as brutallus, and a mobile environment such as PvP