“Endless Rage and improved MS are garbage”
Endless Rage, Mortal Strike, Talents, patch 2.3 October 16th, 2007They’re still not going to pickup the garbage talents that are improved mortal strike or endless rage.
That’s a quote from one druid on WoW forums, I’m not going to give name or url to his post, not to make him ashamed. It strikes me how often people fail at math, it really makes me sad. Mortal Strike have 6 second cooldown, right? With improved MS the cooldown is dropped to 5 seconds, right? That’s 20% dps increase on MS. It also adds 5% more damage, right? So that’s overall 26% (1.2 * 1.05) dps increase on Mortal Strike from one talent. If improved MS increased it’s damage by 25% I guess people would cream their pants instantly, but when they see 1 sec cooldown and 5% damage they all suddenly go ‘meh’, never will I understand that. Maybe because I stopped playing WoW and I can look at it from further perspective? Maybe…
I think people just have short memory, or those who spam forums are new retards every month. Anyone remember what happened after patch 2.0 came in and Tactical Mastery was moved to prot? You could stay 31/20 without TM, or get new talents (second wind, blood frenzy, imp. MS and ER), TM and last stand. Yes, going for full Arms was the way.
Another thing is, if you love big numbers, since Deathwish doesn’t stack with Enrage anymore, the highest burst damage you can land with MS from strongest to weakest build:
- 41/20 (25% enrage * 4% blood frenzy * 5% imp. MS, TOTAL: +36% damage on MS)
- 41/5/14 + 1 free point (20% deathwish * 4% blood frenzy * 5% imp. MS, TOTAL: +31% damage on MS)
- 35/23/3 (25% enrage * 4% blood frenzy, TOTAL: +30% damage on MS)
- 33/whatever (25% enrage, TOTAL: +25% damage on MS)
I’m obviously not counting talents like 2h mastery which is in all of those builds. So as you can see, even an Arms/Prot hybrid for semi tanking - semi dps - semi PvP is going to land higher crits then uber fury offspecced peeps who think, like our fellow druid, that imp. MS and ER are garbage.
Ah yes, I didn’t say anything about ER, did I? The last build I had included unbridled wrath and 3/5 flurry (before the nerf that was +20% white dps = +20% rage over time). I could definitley tell the difference with and without Unbridled Wrath, Endless Rage is way stronger then that. If you are saying ‘lawl, I don’t need more rage’, that’s because:
a) You suck, or
b) You are used to the limits you have with your rage building speed.
There is no such thing as too much rage. Sooner or later you will find that one bitch with absorption shield, or protection pally, and you will thank God or whatever you believe in that you have those extra 80 rage. If I were to resign from such, hybrid 33/28, build I’d go with either 41/20 or 42/5/14 now (even with 3/3 defiance that’s going to be a very strong arena build with Last Stand). The advantages and disadvantages of offspeccing prot looks like this:
+ Be useful in PvE (even tho I hate PvE).
+ TM can become a must have once again, now Disarm actually has a use.
+ Last Stand, the only useable ‘oh shit button’.
+ More armor is always a good thing.
+ More initial rage from bloodrage for those moments when you get in combat before charge (and whole combat after).
- No enrage, not that big deal tho.
- No blood craze, I like it.
- No PIERCING HOWL.
- No other small talents of choice, like unbridled/booming/whatever.
I guess I’ll reactivate my account sooner or later to try it out before WotLK. I think that the more options we have to build a character, the more people people whine on forums. Long ago they would go on forums, ask for spec and were told ‘31/20′, now they have to make decisions and they are crying like little children who don’t know what toys to take, they just want them all.
Terhix
October 16th, 2007 at 8:19 pm
Great to hear u may be coming back i was lookin at paladin sucks and the guy that was doin the blog quit but still its seems like there trying to make it harder for warriors or something in some places and easier in others because of death knight its as if once death knight comes out are class will be destroyed
October 16th, 2007 at 8:20 pm
oh and if u do come back id love 2 hang out n ravenholdt my charachters name is Anderdrah im a human warrior on Ravenholdt
October 19th, 2007 at 6:57 pm
I’m going to have to disagree with you here - they’re definitely garbage for PVE, and still inferior to Fury for PVP. I generally run with an Arms PVE build, which lets me be decent at both PVE and PVP. If you are Arms PVE without Flurry and Improved Slam, FAIL. For Arena, one second off of MS is rarely going to be useful given how much you are likely to be kited/CCed and not in range when the CD is up anyway. If you spec for BGs you are just retarded.
A better Imp MS would be 2/4/6/8/10% damage and -1/2/3/4/5 rage cost.
October 19th, 2007 at 9:33 pm
What you are missing is, in order to get imp. MS or endless rage you must give up on Flurry. Flurry is quite simply the best dps talent available to warriors. Your entire argument is based on flawed logic.
October 25th, 2007 at 8:11 am
Giving up 15% white dps for 4% dps from bloodfrenzy, 26% increased dps from imp. MS and 25% more rage from ER? Sorry mate, but 41/20 wins the raw power competition. What hybrid build will give warriors post 2.3 is the utility (disarm reduction, SS, Slam).
October 26th, 2007 at 9:19 pm
[...] logic that speccing that deep into the tree loses you fury talents like flurry, I still find myself agreeing with WarriorPWNS when he argues for Imp MS. The talent could possibly use a little buff, but it’s hardly [...]
October 27th, 2007 at 9:09 am
Your math is wrong. Your DPS generated by Standard Mortal Strike can be calculated thus: X/6, where X is the damage dealt. How much it is isn’t relevant for this calculation, we’ll set it to 1 unit, so 1/6. Damage dealt per strike divided by how often one can do it. With Improved Mortal strike, you get +5% damage, so it’s 1.05, and you do it every 5 seconds, so you have 1.05/5. This is the percentage of your base MS that you get as DPS. 1/6 is about 16.7%. This talent increases your non-crit DPS by approximately 4% of your MS damage, not 20%. You’re using the numbers in the wrong way. Improved Mortal Strike fails.
October 27th, 2007 at 9:32 am
Sorry mate, but I’m absolutely correct. You counted how much MS dps would fall if the c/d is increased by 1 sec, that’s the exact opposite to what the talent do.
Not to use any serous math, just count how many mortal strikes will you land in one minute:
60 / 6 = 10 mortal strikes without the talent
60 / 5 = 12 mortal strikes with the talent
12 to 10 is 20% more. Now you add 5% on top of that (1.05 * 1.20) and you get 26% MS dps increase. Simple as that.
October 27th, 2007 at 10:21 am
Hm, actually, now that I doublecheck my numbers, I don’t think either of us is right about what exactly I was calculating, because it sure isn’t the damage loss by increased cooldown. You’re correct on the direct effects of Improved Mortal Strike. I’m not sure it’s the sum of the argument, though.
October 27th, 2007 at 6:09 pm
and i love how much you fail knowing your class to realise that imp ms DOSNT add 5% more damage, it only adds 5% more bonus damage, so a total of 10 damage is added
October 27th, 2007 at 7:01 pm
That’s just a rumor created by stupid people who saw that the bonus damage is increased in tooltip when they put talent points into imp. MS without even testing the ability with and without it.
Check this out:
http://wowhead.com/?spell=35451
Same thing on thottbot:
http://thottbot.com/?sp=35451
Apply Aura: Add % Modifier
Value: 5
Go cry in a corner and stop bashing a talent you obviously never tried.
November 27th, 2007 at 5:50 pm
Hey ppl MS sucks 30 rage per strike. Its only useful application is to reduce healing effectivness. Who cares how much damage it does. By the time you get a .5 second slam followed by a well timed HS which can proc flurry and only cost you 30 rage if you havn’t improved HS. MS only works PVP and the handful of PVE boss fights where they might heal. Other than that you wasted rage and time pushing the MS button hopeing the monster would get one shot lawl @ U all l8er.
I approved that comment for the pure comedy of it
- Terhix
November 29th, 2007 at 5:07 pm
Hi, my name is disman-kl, i like your site and i ll be back